The first thing I'd like to ask you about is your experiences with computers. At what age did you first get involved with computing? When did you first start doing hands-on programming? And when did you make the decision to pursue it as a career?

Let's see, I was pretty young the first time I used a computer. It was a Commodore Pet. I was in elementary school and the Pet didn't use disks, it used cassette tapes to store data. Pretty funny -- huh! I remember just sitting around in the lab trying to figure them out. Eventually I learned a little bit of BASIC on them, which was my first experience with a programming language. Then I got my own Commodore 64 which actually had graphics and 64K of RAM. YEAH! Got much deeper into both games and learning BASIC. I don't think I thought of computers as a career choice until just recently.

Does that mean you're learning "deep programming" (C++, for example) now? How do you find the experience?

Actually C++ I know very little of -- it's more realistic programming. Learning how programs can be built from the ground up fast and quick. It's also how it can really apply to a job or to even life. C++ is tough stuff -- some consider it the hardest and most advanced language out there. I've only touched it with some work I've done on an SGI Workstation.

You talk on your website about being an exotic dancer, and I'd like to ask a few general questions about that -- How long ago did you get involved with that? How did you get into that line of work, by yourself or through a friend? Were you doing something else like modeling which led to dancing, or was it a cold jump for you? How much time do you spend at your job?

I've been dancing for over a year now. I got involved because I needed a quick and easy way of making money. I didn't know anyone. I just needed a way to get through school. It really depends how much money I need or want to make that week. Dancing doesn't have a very strict set schedule. I come and go as I please with it which makes me like it.

In the end the motivation [to begin dancing] was money. I'd heard that good money could be made doing that, so I went and checked it out. Sure enough, there was decent money in it and I didn't have to get up at 8 or 9 am. It also allowed me not to have to work everyday.

What was the original impetus behind setting up the type of website that you have, full of photographs of yourself along with other, more explicit, photos for sale? Although the answer is pretty obvious, let me ask for rhetorical sake if you program the site yourself.

Yes I program the site myself.

Most self-admitted computer nerds grew up with a fairly low self-esteem about their bodies, to the point where most would not consider themselves stereotypically "beautiful" enough to support a job exotic dancing. Add to this the natural mental leap that anyone must make to start showing their body nude in public, nerd or not. How did you make this jump yourself? Were you always confident in your own body image growing up? Was there a catalyst in your early adult life that led to the realization? Were you already used to public nudity before dancing? If so, how tough was it mentally to make the shift into it being a money-making activity?

I never really considered myself a nerd, per say. It wasn't till I was older that I realized how much a nerd I was. I didn't hang around a lot of people who were into computers. I mean, here and there I hung around a few, but most of them weren't into that thing. I hung around with the more average person around my age. I think you know what I mean by that. People love to go out and be social. I hung around people like that, which is where the idea for dancing came from.

What was it then that sparked the discovery that you were a computer nerd? In my novel one of the characters talks expressly about hanging out with a mainstream crowd until finally admitting that her interests, tastes and passions ran a lot more intellectual and subtle than her friends, forcing her to admit to herself that she is inherently nerdy. Was it the same sort of situation with you?

Almost exactly the same. I used to hang around people who had no interest in any of the same subject matters. And sometimes I still do. I can't think of a particular time when I discovered this. It was something I guess I always knew. I sometimes get annoyed with the "mainstream" crowds and would find solice away from it with my toys.

Your website is (obviously) slanted towards the money-making side, convincing your visitors to order more explicit photographs of yourself. Yet unlike most sites of this nature, the accompanying text is not geared towards the lowest-common-denominator vapid "sex talk," but is actually an intelligent discussion about your day life, your love of computers, and much more personal information about yourself than the usual sex site. What were your reasons for designing your site this way? Are you afraid of driving potential customers away who are threatened by intelligent women? Have the actual orders and e-mails you've received confirmed or contradicted this idea -- has anyone told you that they were buying things specifically because of the thoughtful text accompanying your photographs? Has anyone told you that they wished it wasn't there?

I think you anwsered your own question. Porn sites are lame. I think we can all agree at that. The text is stupid, most of the design is stupid, too. The problem is that most sites assume their audience are a bunch of idiots. Well, I don't want a bunch of idiots at my site. Liking something erotic doesn't make a person "less intelligent." I think a lot of mainstream porn sites assume that. So I try and avoid doing things like that. In order to keep the site open I do have to use banners -- however, beyond the banners I do not consider my site a porn site. It's meant to make people feel like they're visiting a real person. A few people have emailed me thinking I was some sort of company and are usually surprised when they email me and find out that I'm not. I'm just me :-)

If you don't consider your site a porn site, what do you consider it? Do you think more people should do sites like yours, regardless of whether they dance or not?

I'm not sure what I consider it. If you notice I don't have any warnings on my site. I probably should, but really don't consider it something taboo. I usually refer to it as just an "adult" site. I really don't think people will start making sites like mine. It would be cool -- but it takes a lot of time. It's something I would like to do for other people.

Exotic dancing is a naturally taboo profession, one kept secret for the most part. Add to this your admittance that you program websites and videogames during the day in corporate atmospheres. How do you keep these lives separate? Or do you keep them separate? Do you tell people at your day jobs that you are an exotic dancer at night? Have any of your co-workers or fellow students stumbled on your website accidentally, or seen you dance accidentally? Has anyone ever approached you publicly away from danceclubs and admitted that they've seen your site or seen you dance? Have you ever seen any of your co-workers or fellow students at a danceclub while you were working? If so, what was that experience like?

Most people know about my site. I'm really proud of my site. I don't go and hide, because I think that would be very hypocritcal. Just to make sure we're clear, I go to school full-time. The other job I work is part-time, and it's doing a lot of programming for web sites and servers. At that job they know I do both and to be perfectly frank, I think it's one reason I work there. I think the taboo goes far deeper than you mentioned. I think men are afraid of women who enjoy their own sexuality. I have many examples in my life. I could meet a person who would be totally normal to me and not know about my dancing or my site. Usually the dancing doesn't effect them too bad. However, when they learn about my page they become very nervous around me. I can tell they feel intimidated. And I have no idea why. I believe the taboo has to do with [the fact that] women aren't supposed to enjoy their own sexuality.

When you say that you think one of the reasons you work at your particular computer company is because they know that you dance, do you mean that you got the job because of that, or that you like working there because they know and they're cool with it?

It's probably both. The person who runs it knew me before he even started the company. When I was looking for a good internship/job that paid and also let me play, he offered me a great deal. He's a great guy, but also very VERY much into computers, Internet, Web, digital editing and so much more. Way more into it then even I am. So he wouldn't have given a posistion to just anyone. There's too much work to be done and he needs people who are into it. But, he's very proud of my page and of how I work hard and pay for everything.

Speaking of taboo... at the risk of sounding lecherous, what has your personal dating history been like since you started dancing? What new good things/bad things come with dating that you didn't have before you were dancing?

Well it's the same thing you see on any talk show -- the guy wants you to stop. Plain and simple. It has happened to every one of my dancing friends, too. Some of the girls even meet guys at the club. Even those men want them to stop. I don't get it at all. They also hate the page, too.

I find it very interesting that the same people who wouldn't have a problem with your dancing get very nervous finding out about your website. Do you have any more examples of things like this happening? Do you advertise your website at your dancing job somehow (table cards, etc)? Would you agree or disagree with the idea that your website makes people more nervous because you are very publicly displaying your intelligence along with your sexuality (as opposed to simply dancing)?

I do advertise -- I have cards that I give to anyone who is interested. It works out nicely. I would very much agree with your last statement. I think people have a concept that somehow being on the Web makes me famous or worldly. So people treat me different sometimes. I don't understand why some men have such a different take on the web versus dancing. They always get offended and upset that I have things you can buy. They think it should all be free. But yet at dancing they have to pay, too. It's almost like the man behind the curtain from "The Wizard of Oz." On my page it clearly states prices for items, but dancing doesn't state a price for anything anywhere. Dancing does the same thing -- but creates an enviroment where it appears it doesn't. Weird.

I, like many people, knew two or three exotic dancers when I was an undergraduate. Each of them, without fault, ended up quitting school before graduation, simply because the temptation of such large amounts of money through full-time dancing was too great. How do you deal with this temptation? Is it difficult to remain motivated about finishing school and eventually working in corporate America? How do you remain motivated? Have you, like sports professionals, ever thought of dancing full-time until physically it's unfeasible to do so, and returning to school at that point? If so, why did you decide to continue to do both as you are now?

I think it's pretty easy to remain motivated when you look around you.

Do you mean when you look around at the dancing industry? Could you go into more detail?

Yes, around the dancing industry. Well, most of the people are not at the top of the social class. Seeing the lower rungs of the ladder makes you want to work harder.

You have to also understand my other job is major motivation. Some of the guys I work with make over $100,000 a year just for playing with computers. That's way more money than any dancer I know could come close to.

In St. Louis, where I'm from, the dancers I knew could bring in $400 to 500 a night at the better clubs. It seems to me that if you danced four nights a week, you could theoretically bring in $100,000 annually. Do I have my numbers all screwed up? I'm just curious about what kinds of actual money exchange hands in the dancing industry, because it sounds like I've had it wrong in my head this whole time.

In the state of Massachussetts lap dancing is illegal. Private dancing can still happen, but [it's] nothing like a lap dance. I think it would depend on several things: the social class, how much money people [in that community] have, the amount of customers, and the lap dancing. I would think St. Louis would have a pretty high social class and probably a lot of tourism. I also assume that they do lap dancing, so they could make that much theoretically. But most dancers have to tip the DJ (which is crazy), purchase outfits or have them made for you. I think it would also be very difficult to work five nights a week. All my shifts are twelve hour days. That would suck to do for five days no matter how much money is involved.

Visitors to your site know that you make an unusually candid and charming offer to have people write to you [Ed. note: This offer was the original reason I wrote to Nina in the first place]. Even though you have filtering software on your e-mail automatically deleting mail containing obscene words, most people with sex-oriented websites do not make such a heartfelt offer like you did. Why do you do this? Is it important for you to impress on your visitors that you are a real, thinking person, or do you accept most men's objectification of women as a natural by-product of the sex industry? How much mail do you receive at this particular address? What percentage are the assumed lecherous offers and what percentage are actual, serious letters of correspondence? Have you ever formed actual friendships or non-sexual relationships through this particular address? What is the funniest/best letter you've received through your website? What is the scariest/most disturbing?

I'm really interested in what people think of the site. The only way it can be improved is by other input. I want them to feel comfortable in being able to email me. I think it goes back to the whole "taboo" thing. [Of] the men (and women) who visit my page, most do not email. The amount of traffic is nowhere near equal to the amount of mail. I think it's really difficult to make serious friendships with the amount I do get. Sometimes it can take me a week or two to write back. That's because I try and get to EVERY single email message possible.

A surprising statistic about the exotic dancing industry is that over half of the dancers working today are lesbians. Other women in the sex industry are fiercely political about their feminism, and expressly use their jobs to prove the theories of patriarchial oppression that they believe in. How political are you in your beliefs and theories about feminism? Have your experiences on the job, dealing with the baser side of male behavior, changed your opinion or beliefs about men from what they were before you started dancing? If so, has it been for the more optimistic or the more cynical? Do you find it easier, more difficult, or the same to enter into emotional relationships with men now that you are dancing? Do you have doubts or fears about men that didn't exist before your job? On a separate but related topic, what are your political views on pornography? Who are some of the pornography theorists you follow/believe in? If you are pro-porn, how do you answer common complaints about the pornographic industry (that it objectifies and oppresses women; that it presents an unrealistic physical ideal that most women could not match without cosmetic surgery)? If you are anti-porn, how difficult is it to commingle your physical job with the philosophical ideas you have about the sex industry?

I think I anwsered that when it comes to the whole "taboo" thing.

Also on a related note, your particular physical makeup is far from the stereotypical image of women in the sex industry -- you have small breasts, a wiry body, and your hair is not dyed, bleached, or teased. From a purely business sense, do you find that this hurts your opportunities for dancing jobs? Or does the 'girl next door' aspect of your physical makeup actually provide more opportunities for money than a more stereotypical makeup would? From the emotional aspect, is this something that you worry about? Have you ever considered any cosmetic changes to your body, including smaller changes (perms, body piercings) and larger ones (breast enhancement)? Is it important philosophically to maintain your own, original body image, or is it something you even think about?

I'm not sure about the "Girl Next Door" look. I don't think I'm that innocent looking :-)

But I find no problems making money with the way I look. Maybe I would do better if I had bigger breasts. But I have nothing to compare it to, really. Even the girls at work with large breasts do just as well as I do. I think that whole Pamela Lee Anderson look is a stereotype. I think a lot of men enjoy a more natural look or even a more real look. At least it seems that way in my experience.

Copyright 1998, Jason Pettus. All rights reserved.