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San Franciscan Scott Sigler (Sigler Zeno in Second Life) is what's known as a 'podiobook' author; instead of first publishing his books in a costly paper format, he reads them out loud and then releases the files in a 'podcast' format. As many other online writers have now discovered, such a set-up can lead to a large and passionate fan base, directly interacting with the author in question; as many of these authors have also discovered, fascinating things can be done within the grid as well to help foster this relationship, including the construction of 3D "sets" from the books that fans can walk through while interacting with others.

Unlike most of these earlier mesh experiments, however, Sigler has taken the thing to a much larger level; his set recreations span the entire size of a football field, vertically for six floors, to befit the nature of the sci-fi violent-sports novel being promoted, The Rookie. And not only is such a large environment recreated, but even a higher level of meta character/fan interaction; the main character of The Rookie, who holds a press conference in the novel at the end of each game, actually holds that press conference within these virtual SL confines, where fans can attend and even roleplay for the chance to become minor characters themselves.

I recently got a chance to sit down with Sigler, to discuss all these subjects and more; also joining us for a bit was Robbie Riptide, a fan of Sigler's work and the lead architect for the virtual version. The transcript can be found below.

In The Grid: So let me first confess that I didn't get my research done before this interview, and don't know all the details of the original 'podiobook' behind this project. Maybe we could start by you filling me in a little.

Sigler Zeno: Absolutely. You can find a good description at my Podshow page. The Rookie is a mashup novel -- a combination of sci-fi, sports and gangster movies. Think of Star Wars meets The Godfather meets Any Given Sunday, and you've got it. I do weekly podcast episodes that last about 45 minutes each. We're 12 episodes in. The story follows Quentin Barnes, a rookie quarterback that has to overcome his racist ways to lead his team to victory, and try to stay alive in the process. This ship [we're on now] is a central element of the novel; it's called the Touchback, and is the vessel on which the team lives and practices.

ITG: So is along the lines of other sports-themed brutal scifi projects, like Rollerball or Starship Troopers?

SZ: Yes, it's similar to Rollerball. It also addresses physics; as football players get bigger and stronger, people are going to get hurt and killed. I don't believe in the Star Trek "we will all get along with each other" future -- I think the natural tendencies of greed, hatred, suspiciion and racism will still be with us. [The book's] rather comprehensive in describing the galaxy and the politics, all through the eyes of Quentin, who is a "newbie" to the big universe. All he knows is football, but he has to learn about a lot more if he's going to stay alive, and if he's going to win.

ITG: Now, you mentioned it was your buddy JC Hutchins that encouraged you to contact me, another podiobook author I've profiled. I take it that his experiment in SL this fall helped inspire your own?

SZ: Yes. When I saw Hutch's "set" come to life in SL, I saw the real potential of this. It's a new concept in fiction; not only can you show your readers your vision, but they can interact with it. They become part of the story. For example: after every game in the story, the main character, Quentin Barnes, does a press conference on this ship [we're now on], down on the field. Fans can interact with a main character of a novel in real time, and their comments affect his thoughts and behavior in future episodes. This has never, ever happened before in the history of fiction; people interacting with the characters in real-time, and affecting the outcome of the book.

ITG: I would agree with you in one aspect -- that you have a big enough space here to run a full MMO game with readers, if you wanted. I've never heard of another novelist creating this large a space, that a full roleplaying game could be played among fans.

SZ: It's mind-boggling where this can go. For the second and third Rookie novels, I hope to stage the actual games on this ship, and let people come and watch. The tech may not be there yet, but that's what I'll shoot for.

ITG: Given the way that fan reaction and questions here will influence the plot of the book, is it fair to call something like this a 'living novel?' Is it something distinctly different than traditional fiction writing?

SZ: Yes and no. The story is done; but within the framework of that story there are variables of thought, action and interaction. Fans can affect that -- they can even see their avatar's names in the book, but only if the right question is asked. But, since the story is already defined, I wouldn't call it a "living book." That would be moving to real-time roleplaying, and documenting the results of that roleplay.

ITG: So you mean they can influence dialogue, the way that scenes get to their endings, but they don't influence what that eventual ending will be?

SZ: That is correct. The novel is "finished;" it's not a work in progress.

ITG: But is that an extension of the usual storytelling process, and the subsequent skills a writer needs, or are you now talking about a whole new branch of literature? Do novelists in SL need group-thinking skills and the ability to gather input well?

SZ: Absolutely. There is huge storytelling potential within SL; not the least of which is testing out "scenes" in SL, and gathering feedback. What works? What doesn't? There's a lot of ground to cover here.

ITG: Would you think of doing a project like the theoretical living novel? Where the fans are characters, and all of you as a group actually determine the arc?

SZ: I think that's possible, but probably not by me -- I'm too much of a control freak. My plots are tightly scripted; there are too many variables that come together for the finale.

ITG: But yet you're letting them influence the scenes themselves.

SZ: Correct. They can literally become "extras" in the novel.

ITG: So what I'm getting is that you see the SL part of all this more as being the director of a movie. When it comes to the fictional project itself, though, you want to remain a writer with tight control over the whole story.

SZ: That's right. I put in a lot of time and energy into creating a cohesive, chronological entertainment experience, definitely not "free form." When you get to the end, your ass has been entertained [laughter].

ITG: So the project in the grid, in a sense, could be seen as your own movie adaptation of your novel, but in real time as it's being created, so that actions and dialogue by extras influence some of it.

SZ: I'd say that's right on the money; but it's a little more [as well], because they are "in" the story. Not just on a set, so to speak.

ITG: Let's talk about the construction process, in fact. Did Robbie come into it right away? Do you have any building skills in SL yourself?

Robbie Riptide: (Coughing) No. (Coughing) Techtard. (Coughing) Sorry.

SZ: [Laughing] I am a techtard. I have very little control over any of this. The ship was designed by Itazura. I have fans that take a bigger role in my career; I call them "Pushers." My fans call themselves "Junkies," waiting for the next weekly fix of story; Robbie is my Second Life Pusher, helps with all things in here.

RR: That's me.

SZ: I rely heavily on people who know more than I do.

ITG: Well, yes, let's actually talk about that subject a moment. The more artists I interview here, the more of the same story I'm hearing; how their most ardant fans are actually becoming active creators in their projects, and that they're forming a whole new relationship with them because of it. Has this been happening with you as well?

SZ: Yes. Look at this ship! I didn't create it, fans did, and it's opened a whole new world of entertaining the audience. My Junkies are amazing. They do original art...the team logos were designed by fans, this ship, avatars. GalacticFootball.com was designed by fans.

ITG: I was just about say, really. The traditional view of the writer has been of this delicate flower in a hermetically sealed environment. Are we moving to a new metaphor, where an author is more like a blueprint maker, with the most diehard fans filling in a lot of the obsessive detail?

SZ: Writers can't be in a glass house anymore. You have to get out there and interact. The days of the author in the ivory tower is rapidly coming to a close. IM, forums, email, voicemail, Second Life, all of these things give fans instant access to an author, and the authors who don't develop those relationships will be left behind.

ITG: Is this an extension of such longrunning fan-friendly franchises like Star Trek, or is what we're seeing in SL a wholly new product that only an MMO could produce?

SZ: This is only a MMO experience. Star Trek had similiar experiences with their roleplaying games, but it's not the same. This is far more immersive, and you meet many more fans with the same passions as you. So it's a community. Social networking is the next phase of fiction. Authors like JC Hutchins and myself are trying to make that a reality, and shock the stagnant, dinosaurish world of publishing in the process.

ITG: So speaking of all this, what if some readers came to you with the idea of a full-fledged RPG for your 'universe?' Where you simply donated the space, and they'd run it all?

SZ: I would so be up for it; because with this universe, the Rookie universe, I have plans for fan fiction. I'm planning on moving fan fiction to a new level; where the good stuff, the really good stuff, can become part of the "real" fiction, almost like a "minor league" system.

ITG: You don't worry about intellectual property rights, loss of control over your story arc, or loss of revenue? These are subjects many traditional authors get intimidated by when it comes to this subject.

SZ: If people write things that blow me away, that fit the timeline and universe, why not make it "real" and part of the story? A roleplaying system in an MMO environment is the same thing. If something works, and it creates entertaining storylines that fit into the big picture, why not make it part of the universe? We're heading into a new world of fiction; fans will be part of it, as well as just read it.

ITG: So finally, let's just get our schedule and times right. You're now...12 parts into the novel? And with how many parts left?

SZ: Correct. Should be about 12 to 14 episodes left. I picture it ending in March, because I have a print novel coming out in April called Ancestor.

ITG: And you have a 'press conference' here each week to coincide with new audio episodes? In quotes because it's actually a fictional press conference that the main character gives, right?

SZ: The press conference occurs the same week as a game; games do not occur in each episode, because some chapters have more off-field action than others.

ITG: I see. So when's the next one, and what's the best way to keep track of future SL events?

SZ: The next one will be the week of December 18th; Podcast Island runs them, so I'm not sure of the exact date off the top of my head. The best way to stay aware is to listen to the podcast novel, at scottsigler.podshow.com. It's free. And let your readers know I also have free podcast books at Podiobooks.com; Earthcore and Ancestor.

ITG: For those who don't know, by the way, those feeds work automatically with such software as iTunes, right? You can have new chapters sent to your iPod automatically, so you can just unplug and listen to in your car.

SZ: That's right. You can listen on your computer, or on a portable media device. The episodes come to you automatically, as soon as they're posted.

ITG: It's my understanding that this is far and away the biggest audience for audio books right now, right? Suburban commuters who face such long, long drives each day?

SZ: That's a big part of it. Students are also a huge part. And, literally, several thousand listen when they work out. I listen to all my podasts when I walk my dogs, for example. That's why podcasting is so powerful -- you get to listen while you do other things.

ITG: I didn't think about that; I exercise by bicycling, and it's dangerous to listen to your iPod while doing that. But I do ride the train a lot, and listen to podcasts then, being in Chicago. Incidentally, where are you in real life?

SZ: San Francisco.

ITG: So Second Life's local time is the same as your own. Ever run into the Linden people?

SZ: I haven't yet; but if I become more successful as an author, I hope to work closely with them to change the face of fiction publishing. I kind of see myself as the bull that's just about to enter the china shop.

ITG: And just to finish up, and not to put you on the hotseat too much, but it sounds like you're excited by the possibilities here, and are open to getting pitches from fans as far as fan projects.

SZ: I'm always open to ideas from fans. In my perfect world, I'll create a killer concept, then sit back and watch people who are smarter than me find ways to make it come to life.

For all things Scott Sigler, make sure to stop by his central website at Scottsigler.net.